The only reason I sat there for 6 minutes was because I couldn’t stay any longer. It felt incredibly dangerous sitting there.
http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/ The Latest in Retail, Entertainment, and Development in Raleigh Mon, 24 Aug 2015 02:32:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.3
http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/comment-page-1/#comment-11902 Sat, 07 Feb 2009 23:57:22 +0000 http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/#comment-11902 I hadn’t even given a thought to the truck traffic, but Lee L. makes an awesome point. Truck traffic on I-40 is restricted from the leftmost lane, and most normal truck traffic does tend to stay in the far right lanes – but almost all of those trucks have to fight the traffic to move to the left to continue east on I-40 – that can be problematic.
I think the improved directional visualization that Frank mentions is a great idea too. I would tend to keep the verbage on the signs minimal, though – there can be such a thing as too much information, then the signage itself becomes a big distraction. I would think “Downtown, Wilmington, Cary” would suit the left lane traffic, while the other half could read “Wade Avenue, North Raleigh, RBC Center (or Sports Arenas)”. I still also like the idea of an yellow “exit only” warning bar for the right hand lanes as well.
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http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/comment-page-1/#comment-11798
Thu, 05 Feb 2009 17:45:22 +0000 http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/#comment-11798
Suggestions for signs:
large arrows showing visually what the road does:
right two lanes veering right and then straigtening out
left two lanes veering straight and crossing over the right fork
label them on the left as:
Points South and East
Beaches
to downtown Raleigh via S. Saunders
Cary, Apex via US 1 and 64
to US 1 South, US 64
Continue I-40 Eastbound
label them on the right as:
Points North
RBC Arena
downtown Raleigh via Wade Avenue
North Raleigh
West Raleigh
Coming in from the West as a newcomer trying to get to Crossroads, I remember thinking at that intersection, “well I sure don’t want to go to downtown Raleigh, so this must be the wrong fork”
one thing that always confused me about this sign was the US 1 North sign…take that part off because you can pick up US 1 North OR South at Crossroads. That always used to make me second guess my lane choice.
Also, Signs that say Caution: Use Left two lanes to continue I-40 East
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http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/comment-page-1/#comment-11687 Tue, 03 Feb 2009 14:44:29 +0000 http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/#comment-11687 I used to go to work that way every day and I live in Morrisville so I still hit that intersection plenty. Here are a few things I notice.
One thing is that trucks are often in the right 2 lanes. You can pretty much count on the fact that if a large truck is in those lanes, they do not really want to be there and they will need to get over to the left. Some truck drivers, being human, like car drivers, are more attentive than others and do it sooner, but I have seen plenty that waited till the very last second.
There is the issue with Harrison Ave people needing to get on over to the I-40 lanes. This is made worse IMO due to being a long uphill grade, which causes them to get up to speed more slowly if they do not make a concerted effort, which means they are not moving over until later.
The signage could be better. Personally, I think it is adequate for most people, but if they just added the continuation of the arrow like someone else mentioned, showing that it crosses back over, it would help some that do not beleive or understand the signage.
There are some late mergers who are trying to get around people who are going slow or are confused. Personally, from what I have seen, the late mergers are not the main problem as they typically know exactly what they are doing and check the space around them properly before making a move.
Then, finally, you have people that are just not paying attention. They seem oblivious all the time. You see them at other intersections and on other roads, causing backups because they missed a turn (they stop or slow down rather than move to a safe place or parking lot to figure things out). You see them in the mall, stopping at the top of the escalatior to adjust something or talk about where they are going with the rest of their party while others have nowhere to go (rather than taking 10 steps away or off to teh side to do it). They are in the grocery store, with the cart on one side of the aisle and ethey are on the other, mindlessly looking for a certain can of beans, blocking everythign up.
These people just don’t seem to understand instinctively that others are around them and they zone out. These people are the ones who give cell phones a bad name as they would be a menace without a phone, but give them one and they cause an accident. When they do realize where they are going, they tend to make sudden, unpredictable changes in what they are doing without regard for those around them because somehow, they just don;t realize what they are doing. Every day, how many people drive through that intersection that are new to the area and are doing it for the first time or even the 5 or 10th time and you can say are legitimately confused by signage? Even with lots of newcomers, it can’t be that many. IMO, It is repeat drivers that just don’t pay attention that cause these issues.
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http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/comment-page-1/#comment-11648 Mon, 02 Feb 2009 16:15:21 +0000 http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/#comment-11648 Dana – I see what you mean! In driving there over the weekend no less than 2 cars swerved to get onto Wade and that signage is very confusing. Fact is “Wade” directional goes to Raleigh and “Raleigh” goes more to Cary/Apex … just very poor and dangerous design flaw.
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http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/comment-page-1/#comment-11620 Sun, 01 Feb 2009 16:05:35 +0000 http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/#comment-11620 I believe that southeast of Raleigh where US 70 splits from 1-40 there are reminders painted on the 2 right-side roadway lanes that are exiting. I’ve always thought this secondary reminder would be a big help for the absent minded driver.
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http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/comment-page-1/#comment-11585 Sat, 31 Jan 2009 18:41:33 +0000 http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/#comment-11585 I’m late to the discussion here, but a few comments I want to contribute – I’m one of the many others who finds the “stay left to go right” configuration confusing (I went the wrong way on a few occasions when I was new to the area). It’s probably worth a mention that once upon a time, 440 was indeed a closed loop before I-40 was extended east (or south, as it may be) to Wilmington – but that’s another topic altogether.
I like polthereal’s idea of a yellow “exit only” warning bar for the Wade Ave. lanes. Not only is it eye-catching, but it also helps emphasize the difference between I-40 thru traffic and others exiting off to I-40. It also makes sense to me to list Wilmington on the signs as an I-40 destination, since it provides a better sense of direction. (Or I could be tongue-in-cheek and suggest that it should just say, “Beaches”!) I’ve never quite understood NCDOT’s fascination with listing two-pony towns on some signage when there are much larger destinations along the way.
There are supposed to be added travel lanes coming to I-40 between Wade Avenue and US 1 in the next couple of years, which should help alleviate congestion a little – hopefully reducing afternoon traffic backups coming from RTP. orulz’s suggestion for extending the Harrison Ave onramp to 40 eastbound seems like a great idea to me – it could be incorporated into the new project, I’d think it would not only reduce lane-changing and swerving, but make for much smoother traffic flow.
That whole accident was just an unfortunate and awful thing, it and it seems to me that guilty driver should not have even been on the road. I’m not sure better signage would have prevented it.
On the other hand, I’m glad we don’t have the signage problems that exist along I-85/40 in Greensboro. That whole area there seems to be the creme de la creme of NCDOT signage screwups.
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http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/comment-page-1/#comment-11503 Thu, 29 Jan 2009 16:46:57 +0000 http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/#comment-11503 As Zach said, for out-of-towners, it’s counterintuitive to have to exit right to take the left fork and vice-versa. Before I moved to Raleigh, every time I drove through, it confused the crap out of me. But I do think this could be fixed with better signage.
First of all, the signs that say “I-40 – Raleigh” should be ditched. By this point, everyone, even out of towners, should know that they’re in Raleigh. Change them to “I-40:
South Raleigh”
“Wade Avenue to I-440: North Raleigh”
Second of all, there should be clear signage, starting perhaps 2 or 3 miles ahead of time, saying that I-40 through traffic should use the left two lanes.
Lastly, I agree about Harrison- there should be a separate ramp for Harrison drivers getting to I-40 east. But it wouldn’t have to be an expensive flyover at all. It could just be a simple, 1.5 mile long ramp:
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http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/comment-page-1/#comment-11468 Wed, 28 Jan 2009 20:55:26 +0000 http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/#comment-11468 Zach is right. It’ll always be confusing no matter the signage. But the signs could help.
Things would be better if there were two simple signs repeated twice.
One sign should point to the left and say:
40 East to Wilmington | south Raleigh | Outer 440/US 1 South
The other sign should point to the right and say:
Wade Avenue to west and north Raleigh | Inner 440/US 1 North
Repeat this twice with large overhead signs, yellow “exit only” under the Wade Ave sign. Leave minor signs on the right side where they belong (like “downtown” Raleigh).
The difference this signage would make would be pointing out how to get onto the different parts of 440 (whatever they’re to be called). The current signs suggest you can take 440 in one direction but not in the other (i.e. south and east around Raleigh, which in fact 40 takes you to), and would go along way in helping people who are expecting a traditional loop.
In addition, as pointed out, since there are different parts of Raleigh here, one “Raleigh” word is confusing. Say what parts of Raleigh are most immediately accessed, and leave the next major city (Wilmington) in its appropriate place. If Wilmington were listed first, people would know that that’s the main continuation of 40.
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http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/comment-page-1/#comment-11459 Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:56:28 +0000 http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/#comment-11459 Way to go Raleigh, I’ve always loved the Exit Right to go straight (Wade Ave.) and the Stay left to go Right (I-40) concept…. regardless of the signs put there, it will always be confusion because of this.
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http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/comment-page-1/#comment-11450 Wed, 28 Jan 2009 15:35:36 +0000 http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/#comment-11450 Let’s address Dana’s last comments. The driver who caused this accident was unlicensed and possibly an illegal alien. This is not a discussion about immigration as a whole, but the danger of giving those who don’t have a command of the English language drivers licenses. It seems to me that in recent years the most horrific crashes have been caused by those who are either unlicensed, here illegally or both. I’m not saying send everybody back to where they came from, but I am saying that a better system has to be implemented. A start would be to hire more bi-lingual DMV examiners and require those who do not speak English as a primary language to take the Road Skills Test before receiving a NC Drivers License. Also, law enforcement needs verify insurance coverage at every traffic stop and throw people in jail and confiscate their vehicle if they are driving without insurance. Why NC doesn’t do this is beyond me.
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http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/comment-page-1/#comment-11448
Wed, 28 Jan 2009 13:40:23 +0000 http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/#comment-11448
Supposedly within the next two years, the stretch of I-40 from Wade to US 1 is going to finally get that much-needed third lane. (Well, that was before the budget and financial mess…may be longer.)
Hopefully then with three lanes staying on I-40 instead of two, it’d be more clear to people. Maybe…I’m trying to be optimistic.
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http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/comment-page-1/#comment-11425 Wed, 28 Jan 2009 01:30:45 +0000 http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/#comment-11425 The pendejo in this instance does not have a license and doesn’t speak English. Guess who will be paying for his medical and legal bills…
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http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/comment-page-1/#comment-11423 Wed, 28 Jan 2009 00:50:42 +0000 http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/#comment-11423 There is no excuse for swerving in front of one or more vehicles if you are about to miss your exit. Period. You drive until you can turn around and then make the exit. I have been driving for 32 years and never have I seen such horrible driving. You swerve in front of three lanes of traffic just because you think that “you” might miss the exit (not caring or thinking of the well being of drivers around you) and cause an accident, then you lose your license. That is why our society is approaching chaos, too many excuses for blatant crimes whether it’s careless and wreckless driving or murder. This fool was driving at an estimated speed of 90 miles per hour in a posted 55 mph zone. I have no sympathy for this driver who caused this accident.
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http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/comment-page-1/#comment-11417 Tue, 27 Jan 2009 21:39:52 +0000 http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/#comment-11417 I drive this road every night and the issue is people think they can jump lanes and drive on this road at 80 to 90 mph and then they realize I need to get over. The signs are clear and not “the feel” is not the OK. Only after you get through it does it feel a little differnet.
Just a bunch of bozos talking on the phone or jumping 3 lanes without hitting the breaks and not paying attention.
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http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/comment-page-1/#comment-11413 Tue, 27 Jan 2009 20:19:05 +0000 http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/#comment-11413 Ah the unfortunate pictured person who needs to trash (pun intended) New Jersey. Being proud of where I grew up – in close proximity to NYC and Philadelphia (not that the cultural hotbeds of Myrtle Beach and Norfolk that NC is between are second rate…more like third or fourth) rocked! And I would take most average ethnic restaurants in NJ over NC. And I do love living here, just have grown tired of the tired NJ references.
As for this post – zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, sorry Dana, just what I thought when I first saw it.
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http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/comment-page-1/#comment-11411 Tue, 27 Jan 2009 18:16:11 +0000 http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/#comment-11411 I agree with many, I don’t think all these swervers are by accident. They do it on purpose, every day.
I am proud to be the guy behind them blasting his horn as loud as possible because they’re stopping in the right lane of 40 to get left. If you blow it, keep going, and take another exit. Lucky for them, I don’t need to take this route anymore.
Anyhow, they should put up some of those yellow pole dividers, and prevent people from going through the solid white triangle portion of the split. Maybe a little further back.
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http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/comment-page-1/#comment-11408 Tue, 27 Jan 2009 17:22:00 +0000 http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/#comment-11408 I really appreciate people’s observations. I have luckily not had to live the I-40 experience, so I don’t have eyes on that situation.
On the other hand, my experiences through that corridor were not during the veteran rush-hour traffic. My formal observation period was at 11:40am one weekday. Many of my passes through there are after 6pm when traffic isn’t so heavy that staying in the 2nd lane gains any advantage.
What’s kind of strange is that to the east of that area, traffic on I-40 remains heavy, but constantly accelerating. By the time it gets to Cary Town Blvd it seems to be cruising well above 60mph in 5 o’clock traffic. Does anyone who travels that corridor during these periods have any thoughts?
Nobody has any comments on that swerving 18-wheeler in the photo?
The only reason I sat there for 6 minutes was because I couldn’t stay any longer. It felt incredibly dangerous sitting there.
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http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/comment-page-1/#comment-11407 Tue, 27 Jan 2009 17:12:27 +0000 http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/#comment-11407 A lot of the problem is not from signage at all and is with the attitudes and lack of safe driving practiced. Case in point, “I know when I drove through the 40/Wade interchange every day I was one of the last second swervers often. I’m not particularly proud of it, and I tried not to be so much a swerve as a quick merge. Primarily it was because the lane that I wanted to be in wasn’t traveling as fast as the other lane. I’m pretty sure I’ve had the discussion with others, too, who did the last minute merge for the same reasons.”.
At least Kevin G. was honest about it.
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http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/comment-page-1/#comment-11404 Tue, 27 Jan 2009 16:48:39 +0000 http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/#comment-11404 After having worked in the park for 15 years now, I can say that Kevin G’s reason is the most prevalent. People can continue down 40 in the right two lanes much faster as the majority of cars must continue in the left two lanes. I see this every day which eventually causes problems in the middle right lane as a car can’t find a spot to ‘merge’ into the left lanes. I also agree that during rush hour, coming from Harrison to continue east on I-40 is a dangerous but necessary move for some.
I for one thing the signage is abundantly clear from two miles away and don’t feel it has anything to do with the problem. And while some jackhole on a phone can cause problems on the road, it’s not specific to this intersection.
This is one place I’d like to see law enforcement step in to regularly ticket the last second lane changers. It really is the seed to a lot of congestion in after work traffic.
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http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/comment-page-1/#comment-11399 Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:17:38 +0000 http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/#comment-11399 I forgot to add this to the story. Certainly, with 4 lanes dividing into 2-and-2, the traffic doesn’t split evenly. Almost all of the late swervers are those going from Wade Ave. Exit lanes into I-40 lanes. These late swervers in moderate to heavy traffic cause a brake-tap event. Brake tap events usually cause a ripple effect of traffic slowing 2-5 mph each tap. So, I whole-heartedly believe that late-swerving in the 4 o’clock hour is the seed to I-40 afternoon problems.
There are some good comments above. I want to address two of them:
* Yes, I-440 is getting new directional naming, but the section between Jones Franklin around northward and eastward to Poole Road, etc will still be “I-440”. The southern portion of the Beltline (that shares the name with I-40) is not referred to in the signage approaching the Wade Ave exit. Therefor the signage approaching Wade Ave will not change with I-440’s changes. (see an earlier post – search for 440)
* Yes, yesterday’s accident was caused by “some asshole” (as I’ve heard several times at work today). I wonder if the guy was being selfish, or would he have been in the right place if signage were clear.
* DOT would probably argue that something like 120,000 cars pass that point per day and the accident rate is low. However as I mentioned in my first point of this comment, I bet that many of I-40’s accidents were seeded in problems cascading backward from late-swervers.
* Bottom line – don’t late swerve. If you are doing it intentionally, I want to ask why you feel like you deserve to get in front of people who were out on the road before you. I see this a lot on I-440 outer between Lake Boone and Wade in the morning. People don’t feel like getting in line for the Wade Ave exit so they break in line closer to the actual exit. Selfish and dangerous. That’s what that is.
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http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/comment-page-1/#comment-11398 Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:05:39 +0000 http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/#comment-11398 I think I’ve been here long enough to be “local” — 8 years, and half of that living one exit off that intersection, I still find it a little confusing when giving directions. Taking the south fork to go north still doesn’t seem like the right thing to do, and the signs are not all that helpful. My solution has been to tell people exactly what signs they need to follow, even though what the signs say and where the roads seem to go don’t always mesh with their, or my, idea of what they should say and where they should go. Also following the Wade exit looks and feels as if you’re leaving the freeway behind until you turn on to 440. It seems like there should be a more seamless transition from 40 to 440.
As Tom said, the “Beltline” issue is also a little confusing. In other cities I’ve visited and lived in, the main interstate runs right through town and is usually a two digit number. The beltline is a three digit number, based on the interstate number, that circles the town. In Raleigh there is no interstate that actually goes down town, in spite of signs that might indicate otherwise, and the “beltline” is used synonymously with 440, even though the southern border is actually 40. I think that oddity of downtown Raleigh’s relationship to 40, 440, and the beltline creates confusion in general for visitors and new transplants. That particular intersection is just one of the most obnoxious examples.
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http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/comment-page-1/#comment-11396 Tue, 27 Jan 2009 14:47:19 +0000 http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/#comment-11396 Regardless of the signage, which probably could be improved, the bottom line is some jerk who missed his exit decided to swerve into traffic. Caused a huge accident and now innocent people are hurt. All because he or she couldn’t just continue on and turn around later.
Some drivers are too impatient and reckless because they are trying to save a few precious minutes, but they don’t get where they are going if they wind up in a hospital.
You can change the signage all you want, but you can’t fix stupid.
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http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/comment-page-1/#comment-11395 Tue, 27 Jan 2009 14:43:57 +0000 http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/#comment-11395 The highway administration (city? county? state? federal? probably a combination of two or more of them) will be changing the name of the 440 Beltline. In fact, the Beltline will no longer exist as an official name of the road(s).
I-40 will only have the name of I-40, not I-40/I-440 south of the city. There will be no combination road name. What is now the Beltline that is independent of I-40 (what’s referred to as the “Midtown Arch” in the article) will still be called I-440, but I-440 will no longer be a complete loop.
I’m not sure when this will take place, but it was reported in the News & Observer a couple of months ago.
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http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/comment-page-1/#comment-11394
Tue, 27 Jan 2009 14:38:25 +0000 http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/#comment-11394
I really think it comes down to people just not paying attention. The signs does say where each lane is going and the signs are HUGE.
There could be a little more information on the signs, like the “North” and “Downtown” distinction. The “North” one is rarely accurate, because that sign existed before 540, and people going to North Raleigh should have already exited 40. Not to mention that I find Wade to be the quicker route to Downtown.
So I think the signs could use a little updating, but I don’t think changing the signs would create many more drivers aware of what they are doing. Regular commuters and drivers of 40 probably make up a majority of late lane shifters.
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http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/comment-page-1/#comment-11390 Tue, 27 Jan 2009 13:55:44 +0000 http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2009/01/26/i-40-intersection-continues-to-vex/#comment-11390 Chris’s point about Harrison is an important one. That’s always my trouble with trying to exit on Wade…fighting with Harrison folks for space in the lane.
And MattW’s point about the conflict of maps vs the ground has merit.
I think the only easy way would be to put another sign, billboard-sized….far far ahead. Say, right after Aviation. Put it really really big with bright, screaming flashing multicolor LED lights all over it: “I-40 Traffic Stay in Left Lanes! Harrison and Wade Ave Traffic move to the Right!!” Make it to where you’d have to be blind to not notice it.
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